On Wednesday, October 15, 2025, the Oklahoma City National Memorial and Museum became a focal point for a conversation many Americans are grappling with: What is the difference between patriotism and nationalism, and why does it matter now more than ever? The event, part of the Memorial’s “Better Conversations” series, drew a sold-out crowd eager to hear from Kari Watkins, president and CEO of the Memorial, and Margot Habiby, deputy director of communications at the George W. Bush Presidential Center in Dallas.
The evening began with a poignant moment of silence, honoring the victims, survivors, and all those forever changed by the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. That tragedy, Watkins reminded the audience, was not only a moment of profound loss but also a catalyst for unity and compassion—qualities she believes are essential to true patriotism. "It is about bringing everyone to the table; we have to continue to have the hard conversation. Whether we agree or disagree, it's about bringing people to the table, and finding something about something you feel strongly about, I feel strongly about, and meet in the middle," Watkins said, according to KOCO.
The panel’s central question—patriotism or nationalism?—wasn’t just academic. As Habiby explained, the distinction has real consequences for how Americans see themselves and their neighbors. "Nationalism tends to be a little bit of a superiority which can lead to issues like xenophobia and discrimination against other groups," she cautioned. While loving one’s country is natural, Habiby said, trouble arises when that love turns into a desire to dominate others. "There's nothing wrong with loving your country and thinking it's the best ever, we all do, at least I hope we do, but when that shifts into something where a lot of you want to dominate others, that becomes problematic," she added, echoing points she’s made in recent op-eds and public appearances.
Habiby, a Stillwater native and University of Oklahoma graduate with decades of experience in journalism and communications, drew on both her professional background and personal reflections. She argued that genuine patriotism is best reflected in service and community. As reported by News 9, she cited the response to the 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building as an example of Americans coming together in the face of crisis. “President Bush has said we should be citizens, not spectators,” Habiby noted. “Let’s not wait for times of crisis for our best selves to come forward.”
But the challenges facing the country today, Habiby said, are different—and in some ways, more insidious. She described nationalism as rooted in superiority and exclusion, warning, "The slippery slope for that is it leads to xenophobia. It leads to racism or misogyny or other issues." Nationalism, she explained, often includes an unwillingness to consider other perspectives, which can be especially dangerous in a society as diverse as the United States.
The conversation turned from theory to practice, as Habiby addressed the loneliness epidemic gripping American communities. “We talk a lot about the loneliness epidemic and how it affects individuals, but I think where we don't talk as much is how it affects our communities,” she said, as quoted by KOCO. Habiby believes that the erosion of community ties—whether due to technology, politics, or simply busier lives—has contributed to a sense of isolation and division. “I think we need to find ways to rebuild community,” she urged, suggesting that it doesn’t always have to be about politics. Instead, she encouraged attendees to make efforts to get to know their neighbors and friends, and not to “lead with how you voted.”
Habiby’s message was clear: inclusivity is essential to healing the rifts in American society. "I think bringing people together, particularly from different persuasions, and talking about where we are the same and where we are different, is one way to build that connection back up," she said. That spirit of dialogue, she argued, is the antidote to both loneliness and the dangers of exclusionary nationalism.
Education, too, has a role to play in fostering a healthier, more inclusive patriotism. Habiby highlighted the Bush Center’s emphasis on literacy and civics education, noting that students should be encouraged to watch presidential inaugurations and understand democracy in action. "We all need to be careful in the behavior that we model," she said, underscoring the importance of setting positive examples for the next generation.
The conversation also touched on the media’s role in shaping public perceptions of patriotism and nationalism. Habiby, drawing on her years in journalism, called for greater transparency and a stronger distinction between news and opinion. She argued that the audience bears more responsibility now than ever before to critically evaluate information. "There is more of a responsibility for the audience than there ever has been," she said, adding that at one time, watching the news was a more passive activity. Now, she believes, Americans must actively seek out multiple sources and ask who is confirming the information being reported. "We need to be more critical," she advised, a sentiment likely to resonate in an age of misinformation and media fragmentation.
Habiby’s reflections on the changing nature of American discourse struck a chord with the audience. She lamented that, in the past, Americans could at least agree on the big issues, even if they disagreed on how to solve them. Today, she observed, "When we can’t agree on the problems, that’s not a good starting point." Her call to action was simple but powerful: rebuild community, embrace inclusivity, and keep the lines of communication open—even when it’s hard.
The event, covered by both KOCO and News 9, underscored the Oklahoma City National Memorial and Museum’s ongoing commitment to fostering dialogue on tough topics. For Watkins and Habiby, the stakes are high. In an era marked by polarization, loneliness, and the temptation to retreat into ideological silos, the path forward may be as simple—and as difficult—as bringing everyone to the table and listening, really listening, to one another.
As the crowd dispersed and the lights dimmed in the Memorial, the message lingered: Patriotism isn’t about shutting others out or insisting on one’s own way. It’s about service, humility, and a willingness to do the hard work of building a more perfect union—together.
