On October 13, 2025, former President Barack Obama delivered a pointed critique of President Donald Trump’s ongoing deployment of National Guard troops in American cities, voicing his concerns during a candid conversation on Marc Maron’s popular WTF podcast. The episode, which quickly made waves across the political spectrum, saw Obama accuse the Trump administration of deliberately undermining the institutional guardrails that have long defined American democracy.
Obama, who has rarely shied away from defending democratic norms since leaving office, did not mince words. “When you have a military that can direct force against their own people, that is inherently corrupting,” he said, as reported by multiple outlets including Politico and The Hill. For the former president, the issue was not just the legality of the deployments, but their corrosive effect on the nation’s democratic fabric.
Trump’s decision to send National Guard units to cities such as Los Angeles, Washington D.C., Memphis, Portland, and Chicago—often over the objections of local and state leaders—has become a flashpoint in the national debate over law enforcement, civil liberties, and executive power. A federal appeals court recently blocked the deployment of troops on Chicago’s streets, though it allowed the Guard to remain under federal control elsewhere, according to Nexstar Media and News Nation. The administration has justified these actions as necessary to protect federal property and curb unrest, particularly during protests related to immigration enforcement and public safety. But Obama sees a different motive at play.
“That is a genuine effort to weaken how we have understood democracy,” Obama asserted on the podcast. He described the Trump administration’s moves as “a deliberate end run around” the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878—a nearly 150-year-old law that, with very limited exceptions, prohibits the use of the U.S. military for domestic law enforcement. The Insurrection Act, which Trump has threatened to invoke, was designed for truly extraordinary emergencies, such as invasions or insurrections, and typically only at the request of state governors. The last time it was used was during the 1992 Los Angeles riots, and even then, only after the governor’s call for help.
Obama drew a sharp contrast between Trump’s approach and his own administration’s handling of domestic unrest. During protests in Baltimore in 2015, for instance, the National Guard was deployed at the request of Maryland’s governor, not by federal fiat. “If I had sent in the National Guard into Texas and just said, ‘I’m going to take over law enforcement,’ it is mind boggling to me how Fox News would have responded,” Obama said, referencing Texas Governor Greg Abbott and highlighting the potential for partisan outrage had the roles been reversed.
He continued, “We don’t want masked folks with rifles and machine guns patrolling our streets. We want cops on the beat who know the neighborhood and the kids around, and that’s how we keep the peace around here.” Obama’s vision for public safety hinges on community policing, education, and economic opportunity—not militarized crackdowns. “Crime in our cities won’t be solved by troops in tactical gear. It’ll be solved by investing in people, through jobs, education and community-based policing that actually connects, not divides,” he said, as relayed by News Nation.
Obama’s criticisms extended beyond the streets to the nation’s institutions. He warned that the country’s “institutional guardrails”—the norms and expectations that keep democracy functioning—have been systematically weakened under Trump’s watch. “I think there is no doubt that a lot of the norms, civic habits, expectations, institutional guardrails that we had, that we took for granted, for our democracy have been weakened deliberately,” Obama argued. “I don’t think they’re destroyed, but I think they have been damaged. And they’ve been systematic about it.”
The former president also addressed the dangers of politicizing law enforcement and the justice system. “We don’t want kangaroo courts and trumped up charges. That’s what happens in other places that we used to scold for doing that,” Obama said. “We want our court system and our Justice Department and our prosecutors to be and our FBI to be just playing things straight and looking at the facts and not meddling in politics the way we’ve seen lately.”
Obama’s remarks came as the Trump administration, with the support of officials like Vice President JD Vance and Attorney General Pam Bondi, has increasingly framed ordinary street crime and civil disturbances as acts of insurrection or domestic terrorism. According to Politico, Trump and his advisers have accused liberal organizations and activist networks of fomenting unrest, vowing to crack down on nonprofit groups and even threatening to invoke the Insurrection Act. Obama cautioned that such rhetoric and actions not only blur the lines between protest and rebellion but also risk turning American citizens into perceived enemies of the state.
Public reaction to the National Guard deployments has been mixed. As noted by Nexstar Media, a recent Reuters/Ipsos poll found that 58 percent of U.S. adults believe the president should deploy troops only in response to external threats, not for internal law enforcement. Even some conservative commentators, such as former White House deputy chief of staff Karl Rove, have warned that the issue could ultimately hurt Trump politically. “This ultimately, I think, will tend to be a loser if the question is: Should the president do this or should he have done it,” Rove said on Fox News. “On the other hand, it might get him a slight improvement among the people who are concerned about crime by saying, ‘Well, at least he’s taking action.’”
Behind the headlines, the numbers are telling. About 200 soldiers from the Texas National Guard and roughly 300 from the Illinois National Guard were activated in the greater Chicago area alone, according to U.S. Northern Command. Lawsuits from state and local leaders have multiplied, challenging the legality and necessity of the deployments. The debate has exposed deep divisions over the balance of power between federal and state governments and the proper role of the military in American life.
For Obama, the answer is clear: “It wasn’t controversial for me to go to other countries and say, ‘You know what? It’s a good idea for militaries to be under civilian control,’” he reflected. “Because when you have military that can direct force against their own people, that is inherently corrupting.” He urged Americans—including businesses, universities, and law firms—to “take a stand” in defense of the law, academic freedom, and diversity, warning against being bullied by partisan agendas.
As the nation grapples with these fundamental questions, Obama’s words serve as a reminder of the values at stake. The fight over National Guard deployments is about more than public safety; it’s about the soul of American democracy and the principles that have long set it apart.
